General Board
"Getting" It... (yeah, it got wordy, so sue me)
Posted By: Redster <maciseme@primenet.com> (207.218.34.55)
Date: Saturday, 16 September 2000, at 5:07 p.m.In Response To: Re: Patriotism. (Barbi)
Just because one doesn't agree with another's point of view doesn't mean that they don't "get" someting...
I (and, I'm sure, many others) "got" what people have been saying. I (and would hazard a guess, some of those with like, similar and/or divergent views) may simply have not agreed with the degree of fervor with which you (and others) presented your point(s)... or, perhaps, just didn't necessarily agree with various viewpoints expressed; that's all.
And about some of the postings which didn't come with sugar coating, but were blurted out with candor and without, perhaps, self-censorship... even with some of the sarcasm, vehemence and sometimes "I'm right, you're wrong" feelings I've gotten from some posts, I'd rather see fervent discussions about matters which touch our hearts and minds than the degenerate posts that permeate the boards at "that other place" any day.
Yes, we sometimes have to agree to disagree even when we DO "get" what the other person's point of view is, but at least people are thinking, feeling and giving their minds, personal ethics, morals and modes of behaviour a good workout.
It's easy to be calm and polite when everything is smooth sailing. We find out what we're made of when things become turbulent. Perhaps this is a good thing... to discover more about what makes each other "tick" and from whence we hail in heart and mind, and to learn to express our deeply held beliefs without the necessity to make those with opposing viewpoints "wrong." We don't have to do that to be "right" for ourselves. I see the forests when flying into Memphis and say the trees are "blue green," yet someone else says they're "green blue," yet another says they're "dark green." Did we see the same trees? You bet. Did we reach different conclusions? Absolutely. Are the viewpoints closer than we may initially think? Perhaps, and by using examples to support our opinions, we'll understand why the others "saw" something different than we did. Of course, MY opinion is based on the unfailing Crayloa Colour box, and it's BLUE GREEN, DANG IT! [lol] Is this, perhaps, a simplistic example? Of course; but magnify it and expand it to include "important" subjects, and the results are still the same: We all see things in this light of our experiences, background, upbringing and personal growth. It will never be the same as any other person's on the planet. It's that snowflake thingie... no two alike, folks. Nature's like that, and no amount of fussing about it is gonna change Nature... she's much too powerful, thank you. :-)
These discussions have allowed people to bare more of their deeply held beliefs, and whether I agree with the manner in which those revelations came, or agree with the varied points of view is not the issue for me.
I applaud the sincerity, fervor, passion, candor and willingness to extend the olive branch (yeah, even by you, laszlo, m'dear) even though the respective parties still may be miles apart in their opinions.
It's like any relationship which has its growing pains... we sometimes misunderstand that which the other puts forth, we sometimes disagree with what they have to say... but it doesn't mean that we discard each other when the misunderstandings occur. We mend the proverbial fences, we learn about ourselves and each other in the process, and most of the time can go on to build an even better relationship with the other because of our increased mutual understanding. Of course, when it's your sweetie with whom you're disagreeing, you get all that fun "making up" stuff, but I digress... [ahem]
My dad was in the U.S. Navy during WWII and served in India and China, so we got a lot of stories. My uncle was in the Air Force, and I had many close to me lost in Vietnam, and a few still suffering from their Gulf War participation. I "get" that any U.S. embassy or vessel is considered U.S. "soil," and in principle, because of the implications for its temporary inhabitants, don't have a problem with that. My objection remains in the arena of the general arrogance of the U.S. at large... that whatever the U.S. government does, feels, thinks, enacts, etc., the rest of the world is just supposed to automatically bow to the edicts we (collectively, through our government) put forth -- regardless of what THEIR laws, traditions, statutes, etc. may be. In my opinion, that collective consciousness (if you will) is a mental Imperialism, no less dangerous in the long run than Great Britain's invasive Imperialism of yore. Opinion and thought precede action. When that thought is filled with the inflexible (and, in my opinion, erroneous) "We're always right," it often gives a country and its citizens the message that what they DO in light of those opinions will always be condoned. It leads to the end justifying the means, the means which can be more devastating and horrible than the end to which the participants aspire. T.S. White said: "Wars are fought over imaginary lines." I believe that is not just wars between countries, but "wars" between individuals as well. Our personal "lines" are, to me, our opinions... and that's all they are... OPINIONS. There aren't any absolutes in the physical universe, kidlets. There are too many "unexplained" events in life. We cannot claim to have all the answers, nor expect anyone else to either. What is true for YOU is TRUE (for you). It doesn't make it true for ME. (To use the "colour" example again: You & I may see what we collectively agree to call "red" and "green." A person we have 'agreed' to call 'colour blind' sees something else. Who is "right?" Take it a step further... Is the green "kelly" green or "forest" green or "light" green, etc., etc.? There are variations in shade and nuance... as, I believe, there are with points of view.) Have you ever tried to change one of your own bad habits? Notice how hard it is and how long it usually takes? Well, then... realise the futility in trying to change anyone else. Yes, you can be a sounding board and an example, and through that provide a safe haven in which people can make the changes for themselves, but don't expect that just because YOU think a certain way or YOU can behave in a certain fashion the other person can at that moment. Give each other some leeway to be human, and forgive each other when you think the other has caused you pain. And something to think about there... What has given you pain may just be how YOU responded to what was said or done, NOT what the action and/or words may have been.
Sometimes the most powerful is the most humble child on the playground, not the most aggressive bully in the yard. Many great men and women (with their individual human failings) understood that just because THEY walked a certain road didn't mean others had to, or even could. Gandhi realised that. He made a commitment to PERSONAL change. It changed others, in that they chose to follow in his footsteps. He influenced Martin Luther King and the Civil Rights Movement. Mother Teresa said that it wasn't the sisters' job to try and convert the people to whom they ministered... but to "...help make a Hindu a better Hindu, a Muslim a better Muslim..." That is an AMAZING spiritual understanding of the oneness of all and of God/Divine Mother/Yaweh/Allah/The Great Spirit, etc. She, too, said that Gandhi influenced her. One man, living the life HE felt was right. Millions of people influenced by the life and actions of ONE man. The examples we set, and how we live our lives influence others more than we might think. Personally, I am more influenced by those who show humility, kindness and strive to be conciliatory than those who arrive with fanfare, bellowing their words through a bullhorn. Whisper. It gets the attention (ultimately... even if it takes longer than yelling) 'cause you have to work a little in order to hear the message...
Okay, I'm done for now. [hehe] See what happens when tcfw goes to watch a football game at the local watering hole? :-)
Redster
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